Denmark’s Oscar© 2023 Entry for Best International Feature: ‘Holy Spider’ directed by Ali Abbasi

This crime genre drama labeled “Persian Noir” is based on a 20 year old case but is shockingly relevant, as is noted in this interview with producer Sol Bondy conducted by Marina Dallarosa.

US Theatrical Release October 28, 2022.

Producer Sol Bondy’s explanation of Holy Spider’s genesis and progress through the COVID infected era details the difficulties this film met at every step. However, once finished, it premiered in Cannes Competition and went on to play in the Jerusalem Film Festival, and in Toronto International Film Festival. He noted that the audience in Toronto; was 30–40% Iranians. Their ability to understand nuances and “code words” brought an element of laughter to an otherwise bloody crime film, labeled “Persian noir”.

The filmmaker Ali Abbasi is Iranian and lives in Denmark, the country submitting the film to the Motion Picture Academy for Oscar nomination. It could never have been shot in Iran due to its subject matter, though they did try, as they did in Turkey as well before shooting in Jordan. The production faced years of Covid‑19 surges, shooting delays, location changes and government resistance.

Holy Spider is based upon a true story of the infamous “spider killings” which took place while the director, Ali Abbasi, was living in the country between 2000 and 2001. It is produced by Germany’s Sol Bondy whose previous film Persian Lessons was also based on a provocative story and was Belarus’ 2020 submission for Oscars. Abbasi’s film Border was a Cannes winner of Un Certain Regard and 2018 Oscar nominated film.

A coproduction of Denmark, Germany, France, and Sweden, Holy Spider tells the story of Saeed Hanaei, a family man who embarks on his own religious quest to “cleanse” the holy Iranian city of Mashhad of immoral and corrupt street prostitutes. After murdering several women, he grows ever more desperate about the lack of public interest in his divine mission. In all, he murdered 16 women.

This genre film, with misogyny being the core theme, comes at a time where massive protests in Iran, following the death of Jina Mahsa Amini have unified the country in an unprecedented manner. While more and more protesters, many underage, are being killed by the regime, Holy Spider has met Iranian diaspora audiences with cheers.

During Cannes, film and TV funder Medienboard Berlin-Brandenburgcelebrated the six films that it funded running in the official program of the Cannes Film Festival. These were Ali Abbasi’s Holy Spider in Competition, Ruben Östlund’s Triangle of Sadness in Competition, Emily Atef’s More Than Ever in Un Certain Regard, Mia Hansen-Løve’s Un beau matin in Directors’ Fortnight, Sergei Loznitsa’s The Natural History of Destruction in Special Screenings, and Mantas Kvedaravicius’ Mariupolis 2, in Special Screenings. Commenting on the role Medienboard played in funding these films in Cannes, the organization’s chief Kirsten Niehuus said: “Medienboard Berlin-Brandenburg and other film funds play an important role in sustaining high quality cinema in Europe and in international co-productions around the world.”

At their celebration, I spoke with one of the most outstanding young actresses who played Zinab, a sex worker in the Holy Spider. German-based, Iran-born Sara Fazilat is also German Film’s FACE TO FACE ambassador 2022. She is also the lead cast in Nico by Eline Gehring that was shown almost worldwide at numerous film festivals. Unfortunately Nico is not available online in the U.S…yet. It is about Nico who is enjoying the summer in Berlin with her best friend Rosa until a racist attack pulls her out of her carefree everyday life. Traumatized by the crime, the geriatric nurse decides never to be a victim again and begins to train with a karate world champion.

I also saw Sol Bondy of One Two Films, one of the lead producers of Holy Spider. Produced along with Jacob Jarek of Denmark’s Profile Pictures, coproducers were Nordisk Film Production, Wild Bunch International, Film i Väst, Why Not Productions, ZDF/ARTE and ARTE France Cinéma.

Sol Bondy and Jacob Jarek also stand out as alumni of Berlinale Talents. They both co-produced Icelandic films The County and Under The Tree previously.

Jarek, who went to the National Film School of Denmark with Abbasi and was one of the producers of his debut feature Shelley, says the director “had this story in his mind for a long time but we officially started developing it in 2016”. After Abbasi’s second feature Border was an international success at Cannes and beyond in 2018, the filmmaker was in demand. He told Jarek, “Now’s our chance to make Holy Spider,” a project always close to his heart.

An Interview with Sol Bondy by Marina Dalarossa

Marina: So the first question is just about you and the producer Jakob Jarek. Could you talk a bit about how you actually came to work together?

Sol: We didn’t do the Berlinale Talents the same year. I did it relatively late in my career, and truthfully, mainly because of the woman who runs the program, she urged me to do it. I had worked for the talents for many, many years and quite a few of my friends had done it during film school and by the time I did it, I’d been out of film school running my company for 6 years already.

But we didn’t meet there. Jakob and I were both minor coproducers on an Icelandic film called Under the Tree. That’s how we met. And then we also were both minor coproducers on another Icelandic film called The County.

We knew of each other before, I knew some people that he worked with and thought they were doing really interesting films. And then in Cannes 2018, Border had just premiered a couple of days before, everybody was talking about it and Jakob asked me if I wanted to join the next film of Ali? I didn’t read a script or ask any questions; I also didn’t know what I was getting myself into but I said yes immediately. I sensed this could be a great opportunity.

And that instinct was right. The film was financed relatively quickly and within a year we had most of the budget together. But then COVID came. I’m sure we’ll get into that later!

Marina: Yes thanks. I want to know if you think being in Talents helped your career at all?

Sol: Well, given the very specific timing of it, I think it would have helped my career much more if I had done it earlier. But there are also other great intiatives out there, postgraduate training for producers. Before Talents, I did a program called Transatlantic Partners in 2013. That was really helpful and actually generated two big projects for me. One was Angry Indian Goddessesand the other was The Tale.

A couple of years later I did a program called Inside Pictures. It was also extremely valuable and really helped me make some really important business decisions going forward. Jacob also did this program but again, in another year. There are many great initiatives. Also I’ve always loved going to festivals. They make your network bigger and stronger.

Marina: You talked about how you came on board to produce Holy Spider, but what do you think made Jakob decide you should come in at that point?

Sol: He had a hard task producing and financing a film set in the Middle East without any Middle Eastern money. Also, with this topic it was clear you can’t just roll into Iran and make a film there.

On top of that, there had been a shift in the Danish government. Suddenly, to reach a certain amount of financing from the Danish Film Institute, the film had to be culturally relevant to Denmark. So I believe that halved the financing opportunities for Jacob in Denmark. He needed money from outside Denmark to make this film; he needed coproducers.

He’s well versed in international coproductions, so he knew when is a good time to attach coproducing partners and also how much time it can take. For instance, we often get approached with projects and they tell us they will be shooting in three months. We have to tell them that when we coproduce in Germany, we have deadlines and a lot of bureaucracy, so while we can do a lot — we’re very lucky with that — it still takes time.

To get back to the first question: We were ready to go, we had the budget we thought we needed to make the film and when COVID came and then Jakob found himself in a situation where two of his projects, a series and a feature film, were hit by COVID. And it was unclear how these massive losses were going to be covered. The world was in turmoil and Jakob’s projects in limbo.

It became clear, he could currently not commit to the project — such a challenging production by a very demanding director. Ali (the director) on the other hand, who could have chosen any project after his widely successful and much loved Border, was saying, “Guys, I get it, but I don’t care about circumstances. If you guys can’t figure out how we can make this film now, then it’s over, I’m out.”

And that put me under maximum pressure because making films is squarey our only source of income. I had three employees to pay, was expecting my second child, and at that pont, we didn’t know that the German government would be helping out companies like ours. Without this film, it seemed I would have to close my shop. So Jacob and I looked at what options we had and decided I would go for it. I didn’t know how, I didn’t know when, but I said, OK, I’ll do it.

What was unfortunate at that time is that Jordan, during the first wave, basically closed the borders and would not let anyone in. So the country that we had scouted and wanted to shoot in was essentially shut down. We couldn’t really plan a production there because nobody knew when the borders would open again or if they might close again at some point.

So it was decided to go to Turkey. It didn’t look like Erdogan was going to close Turkey. So we went into Turkey and we scouted for weeks with a big crew, the cinematographer, the production designer, the line producers from Germany, the Turkish line producer who we hired to service the production. There was a big gang scouting different cities in Turkey. And although it was harder to match Iran, we found the right locations a couple of weeks later.

The crew was growing; we were exploring how to bring period cars over the border. Pre-production was basically in full swing, at the same time, we were waiting for a shooting permit, and this shooting permit never came. So I decided to do some more digging because this was making me very uncomfortable. I knew I couldn’t shoot without the permit. I was about to spend a significant amount of more money and I’d already spent around €50,000. Not being able to shoot the film in Turkey would mean that money would just be down the drain. Plus the entire production plan. You can imagine, with everything there, where we came from, the delays that we had already encountered, it was nerve-wracking.

We then basically found out behind the scenes that our application had gone from the Ministry of Culture to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Turkish Ambassador and he got the feedback that this film should not be supported.

I then took Ali and my two line producers and we flew to Ankara to meet with the Ministry of Culture. And they told us to speak to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The next day, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs told us that to get shooting permits we hd to speak with the Ministry of Culture. They basically used us like a pinball. We realiaed that we had been censored in Turkey. And it was a huge blow. I fet so hepless. Everyone was upset. Ali was furious.

It took some time to get the whole demoralized team back into the mental state to give it another go back in Jordan, where the borders had re-opened but which was logistically much more complicated.

And we went for it. We found new locations, hired local crews, got visas for our Iranian players and even managed to import Iranian cars to Jordan. You could make a documentary feature about just this aspect of the production of importing these cars. They arrived after a huge delay, when we were already shooting, but we managed to make it work.

Marina: This sounds intense. Were there other significant issues?

One of the most challenging aspects of the film was the casting, which was very complex, as we were mainly looking for Iranians who didn’t live in Iran. We knew participating in this film would be challenging for their future in the country. But Ali was adamant that his two main roles needed to be perfect in terms of their body language and the dialect. So we essentially needed people from Iran. We had found two who were willing to take the risk with all the consequences even potentially relocating after the shoot. The lead actress finally came for the makeup and hair test about 10 days before shooting. Couple days later she came to my hotel room crying and said, “I can’t do it. It’s too much.”

So we were a week before shooting and we didn’t have a lead actress. It was another massive blow. And this is when it was decided after bit of back and forth and deliberation that our casting director Zar Amir-Ebrahimi would step in and play the role. And she was rewarded in Cannes with the Best Actress Golden Palm. It’s a pretty crazy story.

And then, just two days before we were FINALLY going to shoot the film, COVID hit us in a way where couldn’t start shooting. I felt like I didn’t know if I was making a film or if I was in “Lost in La Mancha — Part 2”. My wife for months kept telling me I should have a documentary crew filming all this madness. I told her I was going to murder someone if I had a documentary crew around.

Marina: Wow! And after the film was completed, Denmark’s decided to submit your film to the Academy Awards. Do you know what went into their decision?

Sol: Well, the Danes may have one of the best track records in recent years when it comes to choosing the film and then being nominated or even winning. I think in the last 11 years they won twice. They got 7 nominations and I think 9 made the shortlist.

So this speaks to two things: First of all, the quality of the films they make in this small country. And then, they really look carefully at which films has the biggest chances. In our case: no other Danish film had been to Cannes competition. No other film had US distribution and played Telluride and TIFF. And already in Cannes, we had the fantastic PR of past successes like Drive My Car and Flee, so it made a lot of sense for them to choose Holy Spider. It’s still a very brave choice because it’s not a very Danish film on the outside. On the inside it looks different, you know the composer is Danish, the editor is Danish, the production designer, ok she’s Swedish, but Ali also has a Danish passport. Jakob is like me, a delegate producer and is Danish. So it has a strong Danish footprint.

Many outlets, like Variety and The Hollywood Reporter included the film in their predictions to get the nomination. So I guess all this helped the Danes come to this decision.

Marina: How does it feel to be chosen by the Danes and also to be chosen for Cannes and have gotten so many prizes already?

Sol: What can I say? It feels great! At the same time, it’s also a lot of hard work. And it’s something that we always had our eyes upon, also because Border won the Un Certain Regard. So after that, the next step is to be in Cannes Competition. Now I’ve seen this go both ways, The Icelandic film where Jacob and I were minority producers together: the filmmaker had previously done the film Rams, which had also won Un Certain Regard. We all hoped to go to Cannes Competition with this new film, THE COUNTY. But we didn’t get into Cannes at all. We premiered in Toronto, which is good, but it’s not the same So looking coldly at that, you could say we failed.

Another example would be a finished film, that I was happy to be a coproducer on, called The Happiest Day in the Life of Olli Mäki . It won Un Certain Regard the year after Rams did. And so the director wanted his next film, COMPARTMENT NO. 6, to go to Cannes Competition — and it did. It even won the Jury Prize! Sadly, I wasn’t involved in that production.

This is something we were discussing throughout this entire production. We were always saying the film was our chance to show the world Ali was not a one-hit wonder. You know, many people refer to Border as Ali’s first film, which it’s not. It’s his second film, his first film Shelley did well, but it wasn’t a massive breakout hit like Border was. It’s hard to follow up on a success like that.

So that fact that we succeeded in following up the Certain Regard win with getting into Competition was very exciting and rewarding. I also have to give credit to our French co-producers Wild Bunch and Why Not Productions. While they didn’t really have a lot to do with the physical production, they really helped in securing the world premiere. They gave us invaluable advice in the last stretch.

I can say that until now, we have achieved every goal that we had, and there are a few exciting steps ahead. The US release had a great limited opening weekend, the nominations at the European Film Awards are coming up and then there’s of course the Oscar shortlist of 15 films just before Christmas. We’re crossing our fingers!

Marina: I also have to ask, with the recent events in Iran, was this something you were thinking of making the film?

Sol: Well no, of course not! But the fact that our film is based on a 20 year old case — and has become so shockingly timely is incredible. Showing the film at festivals where many Iranians attend has been such an intense experience. People have thanked us for our courage to finally make a film that shows a (big) portion of their reality, one they don’t get to see in Iranian cinema. And of course the film’s main theme, misogyny, is squarely what is firing up this revolution in Iran. It really feels like the days of the Islamic Republic will be over, the different groups withing the Iranian society are more united then ever before, men are supporting women on the street and the next generation isn’t willing to give up. It’s insane what is happening there and honestly, more people should be talking about this. They are killing teenagers in the street.

Marina: The next couple questions I want to ask you are more general about your career. What did you think when you chose your career?

Sol: My parents are both filmmakers, but I never really cared too much about their work. I was quite oblivious to what was what was going on right in front of me.

But through my parents connections, I was cast as a child actor and did quite a bit of acting, so I always thought that after high school I would become an actor. But then I realized maybe I should also look for something behind the camera, because I remembered as a child actor, people were so nice and the jobs seemed fun and interesting and so I did an internship. And it became clear to me that I needed to become a director! I thought this would be the perfect way to combine all my talents.

It took three or four years and a lot of failed applications for directing to realize that I would not be studying film directing at any film school. But Reinhad Hauff, the head of the dffb, the Berlin Film School, said at some point after my second failed application that he thought I might be good for his producing class. And that’s how I got into producing after never having given it a thought before.

And I really came to terms with my profession the end of my second year while working with this one director, Grzegorz Muskala, I realized if I could find people like him, with an exceptional level of talent and tenacity and foresight I could be the right person to support them. I just needed to be very picky about who I chose to work with.

On the other hand, I also realized I have a real knack for distribution, because many producing students in my film school would just produce a film and then they would just produce the next film. And this was always crazy for me, because when the film is finished, finding distribution for your film is the most exciting moment. Like now we can do something, even for shorts! We can take the film to festivals, we can sell it to TV, this is the fun part. Of course you need to have the right film.

But I quickly earned a reputation of being somebody who took very good care of his films. All my films went to many festivals and won awards and did well. So at the end of my studies I graduated with a 1.2 million feature, which was a big achievement at that time, this was 2010. I also launched my company more or less at the same time. Since then we’ve produced or coproduced 16 films.

Marina: What do you think drives you now to continue?

Sol: There was a moment, a couple of years ago where I realized I needed to shift gears. I separated from my previous business partner with whom I had had set up the company. We built the company together, but I realized our visions weren’t really aligned anymore. I had this urge to do slightly bigger films and my little family was growing and I simply needed to make more money — while staying true to the films that I love.

So rather than diversifying with many small projects, I wanted to make fewer films but larger ones. That is also a bigger risk in a way. I wanted to take it a bit slower than the previous 10 years. Maybe also because my wife is a filmmaker. We’ve had two kids, and now it’s also her turn to go to the forefront and make more films.

Marina: And so now I guess one could say you’ve kind of made it to the top or at least you’ve checked off all those goals that you wanted to reach.

Sol: Everything that has happened with Holy Spider is really great. And having a film in Cannes Competition is quite special — who knows if it’s going to happen again? So maybe, maybe this is the top.

Marina: Do you have different kinds of goals now?

Sol: No I think I have similar goals. I like to aim high. I’m ambitious. But I also know what’s within reach. I wouldn’t set goals that are completely unrealistic in that sense.

Marina: And can you talk about what you are working on right now, so that we can start tracking it?

Sol: Yeah, so Northern Comfort is a is a fear of flying comedy by Hafsteinn Gunnar Sigurdsson, the same Icelandic director of Under the Tree. And this is his English language debut because his previous films have been remade in the US. We thought, why not just shoot in English language in the first place?

A diverse group of people with a chronic fear of flying are stranded in the wintry north. That film is a lot of fun for a change! And I know there’s appetite in the market for comedies. We’re in the final stages of postproduction and hoping to show the film sometime early next year.

Köln 75 is our real passion project. It’s set in Germany. The story came to us through Oren Moverman who approached us because we had worked on The Tale together. He felt that we would be the right people to be producing this. It’s a beautiful and inspiring great true story about a 17 year old school girl who organizes one of the the world’s most famous concerts on German soil, the Cologne concert from Keith Jarrett in 1975 which is widely regarded as his masterpiece and sold nearly 5 mil. copies worldwide. It really was the soundtrack of an entire generation. So it’s really exciting. An uplifting and fun story with a fantastic script by Ido Fluk. We already have amazing partners to work on this film.

Marina: Is it different now working on German soil?

Sol: Well it’s not the first time, but it’s the first time in a couple years and it is different, yes. Production has exploded across the world with the arrival of the streamers. In Germany we really feel it. All the actors, all the crews, everybody is just like working like crazy. So you could say of course it’s a great time to be a producer. But for us it’s always hard to make a film. Always has been, always will be, there are really no free rides if you’re producing independent films.

Marina: And last question, what advice do you have for young filmmakers?

Sol: The most simple and striking advice that I received myself at some point, though at first I nearly missed it, was from Katriel Schory who ran the film fund in Israel for a long time.

Sydney knows him well I’m sure.

He gave this one inspirational speech at the Thessaloniki Film Festival in 2006, when I was a film student. He said the most important thing for a producer is you always have to be nice, open and friendly. And I was like, well yeah… But the way that he explained it got to me. He said that everybody who’s in a certain position of power has a free choice who he wants to work with.

And these people are always going to choose to work with the people who are nice, open and friendly and if you are that person and if you are nice, open and friendly all the time, then you’re just more likely to climb the steps of your career. And at the same time you will make this industry a better place to work in.

I found it very compelling and striking and I’ve realized that that really is what brings you forward. And so I always tried to be that person. I haven’t thought about it in a long time, so I wonder if maybe I’ve lost it a little bit on the way. Producing Holy Spider was the hardest thing I’ve ever done and has surely made me very cynical at times, but that is definitely a good piece of advice for young filmmaker, I think.

Holy Spider, 115 minutes

Germany, Denmark, France, Sweden

Directed by: Ali Abbasi

Screenplay: Ali Abbasi, Afshin Kamran Bahrami

Cast: Zar Amir Ebrahimi, Mehdi Bajestani, Arash Ashtiani, Forouzan Jamshidnejad, Nima Akbarpour, Sara Fazilat, Sina Parvaneh, Alice Rahimi, Mesbah Taleb

Cinematography by: Nadim Carlsen

Film Editing: Olivia Neergaard-Holm

Production Designer: Lina Nordqvist

Costumes Cesigner: Hanadi Khurma

Music: Martin Dirkov

Produced by: Sol Bondy, Jacob Jarek

Co-producers: Fred Burle, Eva Åkergren, Vincent Maraval, Calle Marthin, Peter Possne, Olivier Père, Rémi Burah

Production Cos: Profile Pictures, One Two Films, Why Not Productions, Nordisk Film Production AB

Backing: Danish Film Institute, Medienboard Berlin-Brandenburg, Moin Filmförderung, DFFF, FFA, Nordisk Film + TV Fund, Swedish Film Institute, Eurimages, Film I Väst, ZDF, ARTE, ARTE France Cinéma

ISA Wild Bunch has thus far sold Holy Spider to Utopia for U.S., Cinéart for Benelux, A-One Films Baltic for Baltics, Academy 2 ror Italy, Alamode Filmsfor Germany, BTeam Pictures for Spain, Bir Film for Turkey, Camera Film for Denmark, Canibal for Mexico, Cinobo for Greece, Edko Films for Hong Kong, Falcon Pictures for Indonesia, Film Europe for Czechia and Slovakia, Fivia/Cenex for Yugoslavia, GAGA for Japan, Gutek Film for Poland, Independenta Film for Romania, Karma for Spain, Metropolitan Filmexportfor France, Mubi for UK Ireland, Malaysia, India; Nordisk and Mer for Norway, Nos Lusomundo Audiovisuais for Portugal, Pancinema for South Korea, United King Films for Israel, Vertigo for Hungary, Xenix for Switzerland, Front Row for MENA.